Archive for the ‘Mishnah Hagigah 1;8’ Category

Robert Sungenis Writes …

October 20, 2008

Robert Sungenis has written a response to my comments on Benedict XVI’s recent Talmud reference in the following two blog postings:

Benedict Cites Talmud Approvingly, Suggests Jesus Acted in Accordance with it

Pope’s Diabolical Revolution in Catholic/Jewish Relations

Robert Sungenis’ response is here:

http://catholicintl.com/articles/Maurice_Pinay_writes.pdf

Robert Sungenis apparently believes that Benedict XVI was evangelizing a group of rabbis, European “Jewish” Congress members, and other Judaic power-brokers in his September 12, 2008 address to the “Jewish” community at Paris, France. I find this a strange conclusion to draw. These rabbis and EJC characters are so acutely sensitive and hysterically averse to true Christian evangelization of “Jews” that if Benedict actually was attempting to evangelize them it would certainly be detected and would not be tolerated for a second. These people can’t even allow the minuscule traditional Catholic minority to pray for them in virtual seclusion on one day of the year.

If Sungenis wants others to believe as he does–that Benedict is evangelizing rabbis and their followers in the same spirit as Jesus Christ and St. Paul–he should offer some evidence that this is so. I haven’t seen any. I have, in fact, amassed a mountain of evidence that the contrary is true–that not only is Benedict affirming the errors of the anti-Christ religion of Orthodox Judaism, he’s also introducing these errors into the Christian fold; building deep relations between Catholics and “Jews.”

But this is besides Benedict’s sly misrepresentation of a Talmud passage which Sungenis apparently takes at face value. Sungenis writes:

“… the pope was quite correct in using the Talmud in his discussion with the Jews in France, for what he proposed to them from their own book about the Sabbath was precisely the same argument that Jesus used against the Pharisees. If, in some sections of the Talmud, it can be shown that the statements therein agree with godly principles and Christian truth, it is certainly appropriate to quote them to the people who believe they are authoritative, for you show them that even their own authority agrees with you.”

This is a trap into which many investigators of rabbinic texts fall which is dismantled in Judaism Discovered. Benedict has presented only one side of a dialectical argument which does not represent the halachic synthesis. The Talmud passage that Benedict quoted is not authoritative as Sungenis assumes. The rabbis that Benedict addressed know this. Benedict himself cannot be unaware of it. The rabbis–from the time of Christ till the present day–run a Sabbath law tyranny that is as far from Jesus’ Gospel teaching as black is from white. This is so patent that I can’t believe it needs an explanation. Jesus and the Pharisees were conflicted on the man-made (NOT biblical) pharisaic Sabbath laws because their teachings were completely opposed. Rabbi-contrived Sabbath laws have only become more tyrannical since the time of Christ and they are authoritative.

No, Benedict was not evangelizing those rabbis. He was, as usual, creating confusion in the minds of his own followers by asserting a commonality which does not exist.

Robert Sungenis Writes …

October 20, 2008

Robert Sungenis has written a response to my comments on Benedict XVI’s recent Talmud reference in the following two blog postings:

Benedict Cites Talmud Approvingly, Suggests Jesus Acted in Accordance with it

Pope’s Diabolical Revolution in Catholic/Jewish Relations

Robert Sungenis’ response is here:

http://catholicintl.com/articles/Maurice_Pinay_writes.pdf

Robert Sungenis apparently believes that Benedict XVI was evangelizing a group of rabbis, European “Jewish” Congress members, and other Judaic power-brokers in his September 12, 2008 address to the “Jewish” community at Paris, France. I find this a strange conclusion to draw. These rabbis and EJC characters are so acutely sensitive and hysterically averse to true Christian evangelization of “Jews” that if Benedict actually was attempting to evangelize them it would certainly be detected and would not be tolerated for a second. These people can’t even allow the minuscule traditional Catholic minority to pray for them in virtual seclusion on one day of the year.

If Sungenis wants others to believe as he does–that Benedict is evangelizing rabbis and their followers in the same spirit as Jesus Christ and St. Paul–he should offer some evidence that this is so. I haven’t seen any. I have, in fact, amassed a mountain of evidence that the contrary is true–that not only is Benedict affirming the errors of the anti-Christ religion of Orthodox Judaism, he’s also introducing these errors into the Christian fold; building deep relations between Catholics and “Jews.”

But this is besides Benedict’s sly misrepresentation of a Talmud passage which Sungenis apparently takes at face value. Sungenis writes:

“… the pope was quite correct in using the Talmud in his discussion with the Jews in France, for what he proposed to them from their own book about the Sabbath was precisely the same argument that Jesus used against the Pharisees. If, in some sections of the Talmud, it can be shown that the statements therein agree with godly principles and Christian truth, it is certainly appropriate to quote them to the people who believe they are authoritative, for you show them that even their own authority agrees with you.”

This is a trap into which many investigators of rabbinic texts fall which is dismantled in Judaism Discovered. Benedict has presented only one side of a dialectical argument which does not represent the halachic synthesis. The Talmud passage that Benedict quoted is not authoritative as Sungenis assumes. The rabbis that Benedict addressed know this. Benedict himself cannot be unaware of it. The rabbis–from the time of Christ till the present day–run a Sabbath law tyranny that is as far from Jesus’ Gospel teaching as black is from white. This is so patent that I can’t believe it needs an explanation. Jesus and the Pharisees were conflicted on the man-made (NOT biblical) pharisaic Sabbath laws because their teachings were completely opposed. Rabbi-contrived Sabbath laws have only become more tyrannical since the time of Christ and they are authoritative.

No, Benedict was not evangelizing those rabbis. He was, as usual, creating confusion in the minds of his own followers by asserting a commonality which does not exist.

Robert Sungenis Writes …

October 20, 2008

Robert Sungenis has written a response to my comments on Benedict XVI’s recent Talmud reference in the following two blog postings:

Benedict Cites Talmud Approvingly, Suggests Jesus Acted in Accordance with it

Pope’s Diabolical Revolution in Catholic/Jewish Relations

Robert Sungenis’ response is here:

http://catholicintl.com/articles/Maurice_Pinay_writes.pdf

Robert Sungenis apparently believes that Benedict XVI was evangelizing a group of rabbis, European “Jewish” Congress members, and other Judaic power-brokers in his September 12, 2008 address to the “Jewish” community at Paris, France. I find this a strange conclusion to draw. These rabbis and EJC characters are so acutely sensitive and hysterically averse to true Christian evangelization of “Jews” that if Benedict actually was attempting to evangelize them it would certainly be detected and would not be tolerated for a second. These people can’t even allow the minuscule traditional Catholic minority to pray for them in virtual seclusion on one day of the year.

If Sungenis wants others to believe as he does–that Benedict is evangelizing rabbis and their followers in the same spirit as Jesus Christ and St. Paul–he should offer some evidence that this is so. I haven’t seen any. I have, in fact, amassed a mountain of evidence that the contrary is true–that not only is Benedict affirming the errors of the anti-Christ religion of Orthodox Judaism, he’s also introducing these errors into the Christian fold; building deep relations between Catholics and “Jews.”

But this is besides Benedict’s sly misrepresentation of a Talmud passage which Sungenis apparently takes at face value. Sungenis writes:

“… the pope was quite correct in using the Talmud in his discussion with the Jews in France, for what he proposed to them from their own book about the Sabbath was precisely the same argument that Jesus used against the Pharisees. If, in some sections of the Talmud, it can be shown that the statements therein agree with godly principles and Christian truth, it is certainly appropriate to quote them to the people who believe they are authoritative, for you show them that even their own authority agrees with you.”

This is a trap into which many investigators of rabbinic texts fall which is dismantled in Judaism Discovered. Benedict has presented only one side of a dialectical argument which does not represent the halachic synthesis. The Talmud passage that Benedict quoted is not authoritative as Sungenis assumes. The rabbis that Benedict addressed know this. Benedict himself cannot be unaware of it. The rabbis–from the time of Christ till the present day–run a Sabbath law tyranny that is as far from Jesus’ Gospel teaching as black is from white. This is so patent that I can’t believe it needs an explanation. Jesus and the Pharisees were conflicted on the man-made (NOT biblical) pharisaic Sabbath laws because their teachings were completely opposed. Rabbi-contrived Sabbath laws have only become more tyrannical since the time of Christ and they are authoritative.

No, Benedict was not evangelizing those rabbis. He was, as usual, creating confusion in the minds of his own followers by asserting a commonality which does not exist.

Benedict Cites Talmud Approvingly, Suggests Jesus Acted in Accordance with it

September 17, 2008

The real, non-biblical rabbinic Sabbath traditions, which “hang like mountains by a string” which Benedict lauds euphemistically and associates with Jesus Christ in his Orwellian address to rabbis and EJC-type characters in France who he calls “the children of the Promise, the children of the Covenant, beloved brothers and sisters in the faith” are elucidated in Judaism Discovered pp. 942-952.

In the Gospel Jesus and the disciples pick grain on the Sabbath, Jesus heals on the Sabbath and instructs the lame man who He healed at the pool at Bethsaida to carry his bed on the Sabbath. This was all contrary to the rabbi/Pharisees’ tyrannical man-made Sabbath laws which Jesus wholly condemned. Jesus didn’t praise the Pharisees for reading scripture on the Sabbath while overlooking their tyrannical, anti-biblical Sabbath laws as Benedict does here.

Furthermore, Talmud tractate Yoma, which Benedict cites approvingly, is filled with anti-goy legalism, notably, the double-standard of compensation for damages which the Soncino footnotes explains thus:

The Jewish owner of an ox which has gored an ox owned by a [Gentile], is not obliged to pay damages, whereas the [Gentile] would have to pay full damage, whether the owner had been forewarned or not. The Jewish owner of an ox who has gored an ox owned by a fellow-Jew, if not forewarned must pay half of the damage; if forewarned, full damage. (Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 85a Soncino footnote v.5)

Benedict XVI, a well educated man who is knowledgeable of rabbinic tradition, is perpetrating a diabolical fraud. He’s attempting to create harmony between Mark 2;27 and Talmud Yoma 58b. If the rabbi/Pharisees who wrote the Talmud really intended that observance of Sabbath rest was subordinate to the needs of men, as Jesus taught in Mark 2:27, then why did they attack Jesus for healing on the Sabbath? Why do they–to this day–rule that Judaic doctors may not treat a dying non-Judaic person on the Sabbath unless it would cause trouble to “the Jews” to not do so? Why must “Jews” to this day not turn on light switches on the Sabbath, wash dishes, push baby strollers, etc., etc. ad infinitum? Why must they be roped into a rabbi-designated ghetto (eruv) to get some relief from the myriad of tyrannical, impossible to observe rabbinic Sabbath laws?

What a farce.

APOSTOLIC JOURNEY
OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO FRANCE ON THE OCCASION OF THE 150th ANNIVERSARY
OF THE APPARITIONS OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY AT LOURDES
(SEPTEMBER 12 – 15, 2008)


MEETING WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI

Elysée Palace, Paris
Friday, 12 September 2008

Dear friends, it is with great pleasure that I meet with you this evening. Our meeting auspiciously coincides with the vigil of the weekly celebration of the shabbat, the day which from time immemorial has occupied a significant position in the religious and cultural life of the people of Israel. Every pious Jew sanctifies the shabbat with the reading of the Scriptures and the reciting of the Psalms. Dear friends, as you know, the prayer of Jesus also was nourished by the Psalms. Regularly he went to the temple and the synagogue. There he too listened to the word on the Sabbath. There he wanted to underline the goodness with which God cares for man, even in the arrangement of time. Does not the Talmud Yoma (85b) say: the Sabbath is offered to you, but you are not offered to the Sabbath? Christ has asked the people of the Covenant to recognize always the unprecedented greatness and love of the Creator for all humanity. Dear friends, because of that which unites us and that which separates us, we share a relationship that should be strengthened and lived. And we know that these fraternal bonds constitute a continual invitation to know and to respect one another better.

By her very nature the Catholic Church feels obliged to respect the Covenant made by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Indeed, the Church herself is situated within the eternal Covenant of the Almighty, whose plans are immutable, and she respects the children of the Promise, the children of the Covenant, as her beloved brothers and sisters in the faith. She compellingly repeats, through my voice, the words of the great Pope Pius XI, my beloved predecessor: Spiritually, we are Semites (Allocution to the Belgian Pilgrims, 16 September 1938). The Church therefore is opposed to every form of anti-Semitism, which can never be theologically justified. The theologian Henri de Lubac, in a time of darkness, as Pius XII (Summi Pontificatus, 10 October 1939) described it, added that to be anti-Semitic also signifies being anti-Christian (cf. Un nuovo fronte religioso in: Israele e la Fede Cristiana [1942]). Once again I feel the duty to pay heartfelt recognition to those who have died unjustly and to those that have dedicated themselves to assure that the names of these victims may always be remembered. God does not forget!

I cannot neglect, on an occasion such as this, to recall the eminent role played by the Jews of France in the building up of the whole nation and of their prestigious contribution to her spiritual patrimony. They have given – and continue to give – great figures to the spheres of politics, culture and the arts. To each one of them I extend affectionate and respectful wishes and with fervour I invoke upon all of your families and upon all of your communities a special Blessing of the Lord of time and of history. Shabbat shalom!

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20080912_parigi-juive_en.html

Benedict Cites Talmud Approvingly, Suggests Jesus Acted in Accordance with it

September 17, 2008

The real, non-biblical rabbinic Sabbath traditions, which “hang like mountains by a string” which Benedict lauds euphemistically and associates with Jesus Christ in his Orwellian address to rabbis and EJC-type characters in France who he calls “the children of the Promise, the children of the Covenant, beloved brothers and sisters in the faith” are elucidated in Judaism Discovered pp. 942-952.

In the Gospel Jesus and the disciples pick grain on the Sabbath, Jesus heals on the Sabbath and instructs the lame man who He healed at the pool at Bethsaida to carry his bed on the Sabbath. This was all contrary to the rabbi/Pharisees’ tyrannical man-made Sabbath laws which Jesus wholly condemned. Jesus didn’t praise the Pharisees for reading scripture on the Sabbath while overlooking their tyrannical, anti-biblical Sabbath laws as Benedict does here.

Furthermore, Talmud tractate Yoma, which Benedict cites approvingly, is filled with anti-goy legalism, notably, the double-standard of compensation for damages which the Soncino footnotes explains thus:

The Jewish owner of an ox which has gored an ox owned by a [Gentile], is not obliged to pay damages, whereas the [Gentile] would have to pay full damage, whether the owner had been forewarned or not. The Jewish owner of an ox who has gored an ox owned by a fellow-Jew, if not forewarned must pay half of the damage; if forewarned, full damage. (Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 85a Soncino footnote v.5)

Benedict XVI, a well educated man who is knowledgeable of rabbinic tradition, is perpetrating a diabolical fraud. He’s attempting to create harmony between Mark 2;27 and Talmud Yoma 58b. If the rabbi/Pharisees who wrote the Talmud really intended that observance of Sabbath rest was subordinate to the needs of men, as Jesus taught in Mark 2:27, then why did they attack Jesus for healing on the Sabbath? Why do they–to this day–rule that Judaic doctors may not treat a dying non-Judaic person on the Sabbath unless it would cause trouble to “the Jews” to not do so? Why must “Jews” to this day not turn on light switches on the Sabbath, wash dishes, push baby strollers, etc., etc. ad infinitum? Why must they be roped into a rabbi-designated ghetto (eruv) to get some relief from the myriad of tyrannical, impossible to observe rabbinic Sabbath laws?

What a farce.

APOSTOLIC JOURNEY
OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO FRANCE ON THE OCCASION OF THE 150th ANNIVERSARY
OF THE APPARITIONS OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY AT LOURDES
(SEPTEMBER 12 – 15, 2008)


MEETING WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI

Elysée Palace, Paris
Friday, 12 September 2008

Dear friends, it is with great pleasure that I meet with you this evening. Our meeting auspiciously coincides with the vigil of the weekly celebration of the shabbat, the day which from time immemorial has occupied a significant position in the religious and cultural life of the people of Israel. Every pious Jew sanctifies the shabbat with the reading of the Scriptures and the reciting of the Psalms. Dear friends, as you know, the prayer of Jesus also was nourished by the Psalms. Regularly he went to the temple and the synagogue. There he too listened to the word on the Sabbath. There he wanted to underline the goodness with which God cares for man, even in the arrangement of time. Does not the Talmud Yoma (85b) say: the Sabbath is offered to you, but you are not offered to the Sabbath? Christ has asked the people of the Covenant to recognize always the unprecedented greatness and love of the Creator for all humanity. Dear friends, because of that which unites us and that which separates us, we share a relationship that should be strengthened and lived. And we know that these fraternal bonds constitute a continual invitation to know and to respect one another better.

By her very nature the Catholic Church feels obliged to respect the Covenant made by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Indeed, the Church herself is situated within the eternal Covenant of the Almighty, whose plans are immutable, and she respects the children of the Promise, the children of the Covenant, as her beloved brothers and sisters in the faith. She compellingly repeats, through my voice, the words of the great Pope Pius XI, my beloved predecessor: Spiritually, we are Semites (Allocution to the Belgian Pilgrims, 16 September 1938). The Church therefore is opposed to every form of anti-Semitism, which can never be theologically justified. The theologian Henri de Lubac, in a time of darkness, as Pius XII (Summi Pontificatus, 10 October 1939) described it, added that to be anti-Semitic also signifies being anti-Christian (cf. Un nuovo fronte religioso in: Israele e la Fede Cristiana [1942]). Once again I feel the duty to pay heartfelt recognition to those who have died unjustly and to those that have dedicated themselves to assure that the names of these victims may always be remembered. God does not forget!

I cannot neglect, on an occasion such as this, to recall the eminent role played by the Jews of France in the building up of the whole nation and of their prestigious contribution to her spiritual patrimony. They have given – and continue to give – great figures to the spheres of politics, culture and the arts. To each one of them I extend affectionate and respectful wishes and with fervour I invoke upon all of your families and upon all of your communities a special Blessing of the Lord of time and of history. Shabbat shalom!

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20080912_parigi-juive_en.html


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